Tuesday, October 28, 2008

Live Hotfix Incoming: JotW and Seal of Command.

Just posted on the Beta forums

We are going to hotfix the nerfs to Judgement of the Wise (from 33% to 15%) and Seal and Judgement of Command (down 20% damage) to live. We need to start getting more testing on these changes right away to see what they do to Retribution in PvE and PvP. We still intend to lower the damage of other Seals and Judgements (except one - see below), but to hotfix those requires touching a lot more data so we think that change can wait for the 3.0.3 patch on live.

We are also hotfixing the beta to return Seal and Judgement of Blood and the Martyr back up to 95% of where the used to be. Live will just never get the nerf to these abilities at all. Hopefully this will compensate PvE Retadins for relying less on more expensive AE abilities that risk putting them out of mana.

To summarize:

Live (3.0.2 build) -- Judgement of Wise change, Seal and Judgement of Command change.
Beta (3.0.3 build) -- All nerfs already active, but Blood and Martyr un-nerfed.
Next Live patch (to 3.0.3 build) -- Catches Live up to Beta. I can't give you an estimate for 3.0.3 on Live yet, but it will be before Lich King goes live on Nov 13.


This is not a bad idea save for one issue: on Live, at 70, Ret Paladin gear has Intellect. No small amount of it in fact, especially if running Tier gear, which unfortunately makes testing moot for PvE concerns. For PvP you'd be testing what is effectively a lvl80 damage talent build against a load of lvl70 damage builds.

As I've said before lvl70 balance doesn't really mean all that much any more, so introducing nerfs now or in 2 weeks time means nothing. Judging whether those changes are at sensible based upon the data you'll receive is a pretty bad idea however.

Some good news though:

We are also hotfixing the beta to return Seal and Judgement of Blood and the Martyr back up to 95% of where the used to be.

I presume this means that SoB/JoB will be back to 95% of 2.4.3 levels, rather than 3.0.2 levels. If this occurs then it is a fairly substantial (and welcome IMV) un-nerf. This won't be hotfixed to Live, but will go Live with 3.0.3 (expected next week I guess).


Dradis 28/10/2008, 01:16  

eh.... I figured this would happen. They can't wait any longer to get Paladins down, not even the extra week for 3.0.3. If they would just hold off changes for three weeks then they could get a better idea for how things go as people start to level. But I guess that is a bit much to ask considering people are wanting the Ret nerf hammer now, not later.

I really doubt they will get any useful data out of this, like you said. So really, that is a cop-out line of BS. I thought it was supposed to be zero to hero, not the other way around?

Anonymous 28/10/2008, 07:37  

I think the fundamental viewpoint that the devs have that "you can't trust a class when they comment on their own shortcomings because they're all biased liars" is pretty sad.

If everybody else shouts loud enough, then clearly they're right or at least forces Bliz to go looking for nerfs. And we all know, when you go looking for something, the tendency is you'll find it whether or not it really exists.

NightKnight 28/10/2008, 19:49  

I think that blizz developers may have turned to zombies and have developed a hunger ... "Uuuuhhhhh.... Nerrrrrffffff..... Nerrrff.... Retribution.... Uhhhhhh......."

Anonymous 28/10/2008, 21:19  

... braaaiiinsss ...

Unknown 28/10/2008, 22:07  

So are all of this on LIVE at this moment?

Any feedback on how we are doing? i'm still not home for a while.

Anonymous 29/10/2008, 04:57  

It seems like the changes are live from my perspective.. I've been running out of mana fairly easily today, and throughout our run in ZA this evening. I dont see any major difference in dps if there was a hotfix for that, but im pretty sure that the mana issue is present.

Alex - aka Firelight 29/10/2008, 13:51  

I noticed it last night in our raid to Sunwell my mana was running out - but I seem to have worked out a systems to keep it up. Post incoming...!

Unknown 29/10/2008, 18:00  

I only judge wisdom, unless i fight druid/rogue (when they're running crazy) so i don't think mana is an issue for me. I can still going through all the dailies in isle without taking a drink so that's ok.

NightKnight 31/10/2008, 16:03  

I just though of an entertaining name for the new retadin... Oomadin! Yeah, I went there lol.

Chrom 31/10/2008, 21:34  


My question is a simple one. I have used Seal of command since day one. I have learned to live it, love it, use it at pretty much all times.
SHould Ret Pallies be using Seal of Martyr/Blood now for PVP/DPS? Raiding>? PVP? I have never used Martyr so i have no clue the dynamics of it but i have always heard it was a good seal.

Suicidal Zebra 01/11/2008, 00:15  

Generally, you'll be using Seal of the Martyr/Blood in PvE Dungeons and Raids. The damage is very close to parity with Command, is more predictable (and hence has fewer aggro issues) and inflicts feedback damage for which you get mana back. When SotM/B gets de-nerfed in 3.0.3 it will be considerably better than Command DPS-wise.

For PvP you'll still want to use Command because of it's burst damage potential (internal cooldown notwithstanding) and feedback damage isn't too useful in PvP where every HP counts.

There are certain gimmick fights where SotM/B shouldn't be used under any circumstances. The prime example of this is Prince in Karazhan as the Enfeeble reduces you to 1 HP, causing you to gib yourself from feedback damage (with supreme embarrassment as a side-effect). There may well be similar fights in Wrath, I'm not too up with every raid encounter in the new instances, so keep your eyes open and be sensible where you have to.

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