Tuesday, March 31, 2009

Vindication for Ret Engineers Too Stubborn to Change?

Well, the changes to Seal mechanics have shaken up the DPS Rating landscape. Seal of Blood/ Seal of the Martyr will now contribute much more and Judgement much less to overall DPS. SoB is a little strange in that it has double-dependence on miss mechanics: the auto-attack which procs SoB rolls for Dodge/Parry/Miss, and then if it hits the SoB Proc also rolls for Dodge/Parry/Miss. Because of these mechanics Hit Rating, once the 'second best but not worth socketing for' Stat, is now almost on a par with Strength before Cap. Time to go out and buy those Etched Monarch Topaz for your yellow Sockets if you're below the hit cap; +4 of any Rating as a socket bonus will be better than +16 Strength. Expertise is also very, very nice, though not as good as Strength or Hit and so not really worth socketing for.

But that's not the best part. For some time now Retribution Engineering has been lacking a 'Best In Slot' equipment enhancement unique to the profession. Blacksmiths have the sockets, Jewelcrafters have the (frankly obscene) Prismatic +27 Str gems and Enchanters have the ring enchants. Well finally it appears that Engineering has something to show off:

At last. With the cumulative impact of the Haste Rating boost to melee DPS (+30% effectiveness) and greater dependence on Seal Proc damage, Haste trounces Attack Power and is up there dukeing it out with Crit and Agility as third best stat. This means that the Hyperspeed Accelerators are better than Enchant Gloves:Crusher (+44 AP) and Enchant Gloves:Precision (+20 Hit Rating) for your average Hammer-toting Ret Pally. As it is an activated effect on 1 minute cooldown you can also synchronise it with Avenging Wrath and activated trinkets for a cumulative boost to DPS. Yay?

Well, I think it deserves a yay ;P

Other News:

There was a minor build deployed to the PTR this morning but it doesn't appear that there is anything Paladin-oriented to bitch about. I'm starting to write a Ret Paladin primer for 3.1 featuring talent and skill changes, stat weighting changes and new skills and rotations etc. Would that be useful to anyone or should I knock it into touch before I get too far?

Also, Guitar Hero is Hard :(


Alex - aka Firelight 31/03/2009, 12:46  

Being a Blacksmith AND Engineer will i be able to use the prismatic socket and the engineering enchant?

I imagine so - damn - time to level up my engineering! DOH!

Suicidal Zebra 31/03/2009, 13:51  

Engineering augmentations typically use the same rules as Enchantments, so yes you can use both at the same time.

Galoheart 31/03/2009, 13:59  

In keeping up with things, thanks for the info.

Anonymous 31/03/2009, 14:24  

Hi Alex, I'm a BS/Eng and have had the bonus socket and Hyperspeed Accelerators on my gloves. So Zebra is right, we can have both at the same time.


Klepsacovic 31/03/2009, 15:39  

Finally, it has all been worth it! Maybe. Who am I kidding, I'm an engineer. My DK is going gnomish just so I can get more trinkets.

A stat guide would be useful, especially since I don't even know the values now. I know strength is high, but when I see 80 ArP, surely that high amount of bad turns into good, right?

Chrom 31/03/2009, 17:19  

there has been alot of talk about Hand of Reckoning in PVP. using it to engage enemy in combat, preventing sap, charge, and other abilities. Pallys using it to crush totems for cheap mana. And most importantly, applying a Vindication debuff to the enemy before dropping a judgement bomb on them. I am a little late to the party on this, but i have heard that they are messing with the dynamics of this currently and it wont work in the same capacity after patch. Does anyone have any news on this? how will HOR work moving forward? has Blizz said anthing about looking into this and what parts they will nerf (vidication debuff) and if they will leave the damage component (totem killer) and still engage the pally in combat?

Anonymous 31/03/2009, 17:38  

my personal favorite is when Bandit's Insignia procs of Hand of Reckoning, I pull at range with 160 damage, then blam! I see this 2500 float up... pretty cool :)

Vndead 31/03/2009, 18:17  

"SoB is a little strange in that it has double-dependence on miss mechanics: the auto-attack which procs SoB rolls for Dodge/Parry/Miss, and then if it hits the SoB Proc also rolls for Dodge/Parry/Miss."

I don't see what you are saying here. If we capped hit at 8% (or 9% if someone is paranoid), we can't miss in one roll or a million rolls. Why do we need to double the amount jsut because we roll 2 times instead of one.

Maybe I misunderstood what you are trying to say?

Suicidal Zebra 31/03/2009, 18:46  
This comment has been removed by the author.
Suicidal Zebra 31/03/2009, 19:23  

Actually, scratch that. Hunter pets are not immune to HoR.

I think the way that it works is that targets immune to the Taunt component are now also immune to the damage. Hence Players are immune, but Player Pets aren't. Totems fit in the grey area of a 'Creation' and I think that as they are immune to taunts they will be immune to HoR's damage. I don't think this will change.

It's a blow for PvP, I guess we'll have to live with Exorcism against Players. Totems will be a PITA, just as they were before 3.0.8.

Josh 31/03/2009, 21:16  

Tag you're it.

Second, I'm very excited that I can use Hyperspeed Accelerators.

Third, the armor to gloves will be sweet for my tank set!

Forth, I want the parachute cloak enhancement to be equal to major agility. Boo to losing stats to get my toys.

Suicidal Zebra 31/03/2009, 21:34  

@ VnDead

You've misunderstood a little. If you are capped for Expertise (6.5%) and Hit (8%) for Autoattacks (AA) you are also capped for SoB procs. The double-dependence is only important when you are not capped.

Taken in isolation, a SoB Proc 'Hit' obeys the same Miss/Dodge/Parry rules as any other melee attack. Attacking from behind you have a base 8% miss and 6.5% dodge chance on this Proc.

However for a SoB Proc to occur an Autoattack must also hit. Thus the overall chance for a successful SoB Proc is the chance for a SoB Proc Hit multiplied by the chance for an Autoattack hit.

The impact of this is that when calculating SoB's DPS contribution melee miss rates have an exaggerated effect. A 2% melee miss rate will equate to a 1-(0.98)^2 reduction in the number of SoB procs. The good news is that you don't need any more Hit rating than you normally do to overcome this miss rate.

Does that make sense? If not, I'll see about writing a proper post about it.


1) Argh! How am I going to think of 7 other blogs to link :(

3) I'd forgotten about the new engineering webbing, 'tanks' for reminding me ;)

4) Agreed. Same goes for the Nitro Boosts, I'd love them to have the stat value of Icewalker or Greater Assault.

Tom 01/04/2009, 16:17  

I'd love to sett the Ret Pally Primer.. keep it coming!

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